I’m sure one could of found all types of conversation as the staff road home in the various cars or the bus. But what about sharing your thoughts so the whole staff can hear. I’m asking you take a moment and share your thoughts on Ruby Paine. Did anything impact you to the point you plan on making changes? Were there any “aha moments”? Just share your thoughts and feel free to comment on others.
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14 responses so far ↓
Karen Ford // November 19, 2008 at 1:45 pm |
I liked hearing all she had to say. She was entertaining too and definitely had “been there.” I think she came out with the best points in the afternoon, which is too bad, because I was getting really tired of sitting then – even though I liked the info. I want to try the eyes up for recall and the eyes down for emotion – at least observe this to see if it is true. There is so much going on in brain research these days! There are other things I want to look at, such as her technique for diffusing conflict between teacher and student by using the right “voice.” Lots of good info, I thought.
Traci Frazier // November 19, 2008 at 2:01 pm |
I agree with Karen in that I was also tired in the afternoon but she did still bring up some great points. It would be interesting to ask students who their board of directors are (those 8-10 people in their mind). I thought it would be a great writing piece if I still taught English. I also think we sometimes think we don’t have any students who are like those she discussed or showed videos about. However, the sad reality is that we do. It is sometimes hard to understand poverty when we, as teachers, don’t often find ourselves there. In working with students, I know I try really hard to try and imagine what it would be like to be in that student’s shoes, living in the conditions that student does. When I truly step back and do that, then I am often amazed the student is functioning as well as he/she is. I think Ruby gave us some great things to think about and to try and change as we all approach students. Was a worthwhile day for me!
Vicki // November 19, 2008 at 2:52 pm |
I thought it was an excellent overview and reminder that we all come from our own egocentric perspective and norms (which is neither right, nor wrong, just a fact). This awareness is critical in helping us differentiate our approaches to students and parents, in challenging our own thinking about why responses may occur, ways to think about a student’s pool of resources (or often lack of resources), and most importantly, that we can teach students how to navigate “hidden rules” of school and work. Thanks for sending the Holton staff, Dr. K.
Mike Spade // November 19, 2008 at 4:21 pm |
I read through the survival quizzes on the way home only to find out I couldn’t survive in any of the three categories. I think I already knew that. The amazing thing to me was the extreme differences in the 3 classes.
Mike Ford // November 19, 2008 at 4:41 pm |
For those of you who don’t know, I was impoverished while in junior high and high school. My household was a HUGE MESS. My mother was divorced and had no job. So, I went to school and went to work at a small grocery store, which I made 90 cents per hour (this was as a freshman). My paycheck went to paying for food for the family (a total of 6 of us). My stepfather wasn’t working either. So, school and astronomy was my security. I could have gone to the dark side, but didn’t. I had lots of support from school and my grandmother. If it wasn’t our secure environment of school, both my brother and I would probably be in jail. When I graduated, I left RIGHT AFTER my so called home, right after my graduation ceremony. My brother is a successful electronic engineer in California with a Masters Degree.
Carolyn McKee // November 20, 2008 at 2:31 pm |
I took the survival quizzes as well and low and behold,I identified with poverty and middle class. GO FIGURE! Bottom line to me is neither poverty, middle class or wealth brings peace or hope to your soul. I have learned to try and be content in whatever life brings. I loved the story about the kids with not a lot of clothes but yet they have a satellite dish in the yard. It makes sense that all people need recreation and all the more if you are under constant stress.
It is really no different then what sometimes the public sees as foolish wasted money in our city, county and schools.
I liked that the speaker was very clear that neither poverty, middle or wealth had more worth than the other, just different circumstances. I for one know that my worth comes from within and not externals! If only our kids knew that, then you would really see changes!
Jason Larison // November 20, 2008 at 3:13 pm |
I really thought the information was needed for all of us to hear/be reminded about. During the afternoon, I was thinking about a “showdown” I had with a kid in class the day before that I ended up sending to the office. I went directly into “Parent” dialog and never approached “Adult”. I told the kid was he was doing wrong, challenged him for not doing the right thing, and when he reacted back I “should” not have been surprised. If I had approached it different, I am sure the results would have been different. Asking questions in Adult mode would have diffused the situation and avoided a lot of confrontation.
Also when she showed the video of the family living in the trailer, I thought directly about 2 students in my elementary school classes. JM and CJY both were picked on and bullied because they were perceived as different than everyone else. The lady in the video could have been either one of their mothers.
I still remember when one of my classmates went over to one of their houses. They came back and told everyone that they had “dirt” floors in their house. Although that was way back in the early 80’s, it still left a big impression on me. I sat through the afternoon wondering about the “resources” that those two had available to be successful in school…. i.e. – hoe many of my students are missing some of those same vital resources that I take for granted.
I think it is very hard for teachers to look at our classrooms with any other perspective than our own personal background. If we approached learning and school a certain way, then we “naturally” expect that of our students. If we had someone to “expect us to do our homework”, “help us do a school fundraiser”, or “be there in the stands cheering us on at a band concert, basketball game, or school play” then it is very hard to see or remember that not all kids have that.
Tuesday helped open my eyes or be reminded of that again. Even if we understand that “all kids come from different backgrounds and experiences”, it still is nearly impossible to see all of the ramifications of those differences have on students lives. For example, the lower light conditions in many homes in poverty… I never would have thought of the impact on developmental stages in sight and the brain early on…
I thought it was a very intriguing day and look forward to more discussions and perspectives.
Debbie Harshaw // November 20, 2008 at 3:32 pm |
I was impressed with all she had to say. I had a few ah-ha moments, too. Poverty – it exists in such scary form in our own town and we don’t realize the actual differences it poses in our students and the way we should respond and teach to them. I especially liked the levels of speech she covered and realized that we , as teachers, go home and forget to change our level. That explains why my husband and kids say I talk to them like students sometimes:)
Ruby Payne was engaging as a speaker and left her audience with many ideas to think about.
Do we really have any students that would be considered wealthy in her standards? Just wondering……
Alan Beam // November 20, 2008 at 5:15 pm |
I think most of us already realize the importances of building a relationship with our students. With a relationship teachers can get more from their students. They can ask them to step out of their comfort zone, work harder and simply challenge themselves. The challenge is how do you build that relationship. With many teachers raised in a middle class family we tend to all have the same views. Ruby Paine not only reinforces many of my thoughts about the middle class public school system but also opened my eyes to other issues. To build that relationship a teacher must understand where the child comes from without being a judge of that child’s background.
I, like Debbie had several aha moments. One that relates to forming relationship and not judging was when she said that those below the middle class don’t necessary want to be middle class. They are happy with their social structure but only want more money. As a teacher I think we tend to want to “change” the kids because we so often think that’s what the parents want us to do or that its better for them. But is that true? This may explain how I can visit with a parent a dozen times about student behavior and they agree with me but once outside the building tell others I don’t like the kid. Because to the parent the behavior we speak about is acceptable in their social center.
Understanding this can help me better understand the kid. Be able to reach him or her with things that relate to him or her. From there once the relationship is built I can work to improve his educational skills and ability. Leave it to the student to determine what he wants to do with those skills and new knowledge’s that his obtained.
I know as I write this I’m bouncing all over the place but as I listen to her speak my mind did the same thing. Thinking about kids I’ve had in my classroom, or in my office. Looking at how this knowledge might of help me better understand the situation and maybe made a bigger difference in the kid’s life
Like Mr. Ford I took spent some time in poverty it would have been classified as “situation poverty”. I lived in Phillipsburg, Kansas and was in about second grade when something happen that left us a single parent family. My mother who at the time had really very little skills had to find a job and take care of my sister and me. From 2nd grade to 6th grade my mother took care of us with a very limited income. To this day I cannot eat “fried Bologna”. I still remember my Uncle coming to see us and thinking he would buy me a new bike because my current bike was broker. But to my disappointment he only repaired the one we had. I was fortunate that my mom thought education was important and she continued to push me. But to be honest I was one of those black birds. I was pulled from the classroom for help with my reading. But I had a teacher who really got me excited about math. I remember to this day the big deal she made when I turned in a paper where I had counted out to a thousand becoming the first student to do something like that. I recall when we couldn’t make it any more and had to move back to Iowa and live with my grandfather and uncle. How the class came together and raised money to buy me a pair of cowboy boots as a good-bye gift. (See all my buddies had cowboy boots and I was always jealous because I didn’t have them – and to this day I’m still mad at my grandfather who threw them away some years later with holes in the souls and all beaten up from living on a farm – I even went out to the trash pile in the fields trying to find them.) I could continue with this story but the bottom line the one place I could find shelter in and get away from things was school. In 5th grade things changed and by the time I reached middle school we had returned to one of those “middle class families”.
In closing it was interesting to me that the day after Ruby’s presentation, coming to school I was listening to the news talk about GM CEO presenting to Congress asking for funds. The media was hammering on how the CEO used the company jet (and spoke about all the other jest they had) to fly from Detroit to D.C. The media tried to interview the CEO about the fact that a “Coach” ticket would of cost only 280.00 and a first class would of cost 900.00 but by flying the jet it cost the company 20,000. A course the CEO didn’t respond. I wondered how many other Americans were watching this broadcast and thinking those fat cats just keep taking advantage of us poor folks? But after listening to Mrs. Paine I started thinking about how she spoke about how the Old Money viewed things. I’d like to say the CEO just doesn’t get it but maybe it’s I haven’t gotten it. For a CEO of a major company flying coach or even first class would be way below what is acceptable in the social circle. Hmmm… I guess this stuff goes both directions … those poor to those rich and here we sit as educators caught in the middle.
Susan Rhule // November 20, 2008 at 5:32 pm |
I was actually dragging my feet about going and listening to Ruby Payne. I had spoken with another educator (not from this district) who was “a little” familiar with Ruby’s work and had discounted her work as not being valid. So I was a bit skeptical.
Ruby really enlightened me on a number of things and she was right on the money. I remember working at Highland Park and counseled a very poor student who had no winter coat, cruddy shoes and one pair of jeans. She did not have shampoo or deodorant, and wasn’t considered very clean, so as you know, she was ostracized by the other kids. She wanted to drop out of school. For her 16th birthday, she came in to tell me that her mom got her a great present. (I was thinking a coat, or a pair of jeans or almost anything except what she actually got.) In her excitement, she told me that her mom had actually bought her a carton of cigarettes for her 16th birthday and she was sssoooo excited. Needless to say, I was deflated. It was about a week later, that mom also gave her a present by letting her drop out of high school. She told me she was going to get a job to help out the family. I cannot remember this girls name, but I think of her occasionally and wonder where she is……Poverty was normal to them & they were OK with it–as a white middle class counselor, I was not.
I loved the idea of the Registers of a Language & the African American Principal and her story of Jack. I believe that we need to do a better job of teaching our students the differences because this is a life long skill.
The day was well-spent and I learned a great deal. (I even logged onto the website!!)
Jason Larison // November 20, 2008 at 7:11 pm |
Another thought that went through my mind was the speakers that Mrs. Stous had come in and talk to the entire sophomore class about homeless in Jackson county. They basically shared that there are a lot more students/families considered homeless that we would ever expect… some of those students are in our classes and we would never know.
Some are temporarily homeless and others are more “long term”… It was a very interesting presentation and added into the discussion on poverty that we had on Tuesday.
Brenda // November 20, 2008 at 9:46 pm |
Some of my unconnected thoughts…
My oldest son, Nate, has intentionally chosen to work with the poor in St. Louis as a third grade teacher. He has been trying to help me understand much of what Ruby said. He told me of a student in their school who had no refrigerator. The staff went together and bought the family one only to have them resale it for a trip to Disneyland. Sound familiar?
I have lived in a third world country, and have found that wealth really is relative. In Latin America I was part of the wealthy class and was treated as such, which felt uncomfortable. I have also been on the other end of the spectrum when my dad was unemployed. After Tuesday, I finally understand him a little better since he came from poverty in Texas – a side benefit.
I hope that Ruby’s explanation about registers of language will also help all of us to understand why the ELL (English Language Learners) in this school can speak (informally) so well and yet do so miserably on a test or in the classroom where formal language is used.
Overall, I appreciate the opportunity we had to stop and consider cultural differences based on socioeconomic levels and how that effects our students’ behaviors and our own. I have grown from it and do hope to pass it on.
Carol // November 21, 2008 at 4:30 am |
My eyes were opened to poverty in a new way just this past week when I visited a home, but never sat down because there really wasn’t any place to sit. With that recent experience in mind, I took Ruby’s comments all the more to heart.
I think she gave us all a lot to think about, especially in terms of how we deal with students that are not responding in ways we think they should. Instead of expecting them to align to our expectations, maybe at times we will readjust our expectations, now that we understand better some of the differences. As we change our expectations, the students may respond more positively.
I have always thought school was a place of security for many students, and was interested in her discussion of that.
Stacey Kramer // November 21, 2008 at 6:16 pm |
In Topeka, new teachers get some of this training, because in many schools, the low SES is the norm (80% in my first school). At that school, food was a motivator for kids and we never required kids to 1. do homework because they had no home support or 2. to bring school supplies because we knew it was a challenge. The first time I cried at that school was when a kid gave me a box of pencils for Christmas because he watched me give them out all year. (He was middle class too). I really like the idea that we have to look at support at home when we are making educational decisions for and with kids. We have to think more like social workers for some kids. It can’t be purely academic until some basic needs are met as best we can.
I was glad to find that I learned new stuff at this presentation. I love the idea of the eye movement. I will try it as well.